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Matt: Welcome to the Spotlight podcast. In our interviews, we feature insightful people in the deep end of TV and film production and distribution, and today is no different. And the interview today is with Natalie Edwards-Yesufu. And Natalie is a UK based film and theater producer, entrepreneur, and creative leader in the media and entertainment industry.
Natalie is the founder and CEO of Transition Stage Company, an independent production company focused on film, theater, and factual entertainment. She's a multi-award-winning producer and creative entrepreneur with work spanning the UK, Europe, and the US. And her work includes producing stage productions, films, and TV content, but also collaborating with organisations like the BBC and Channel Four.
Natalie, thank you so much for joining us
Natalie: What an introduction. Wow. Thank you so much.
Matt: Great stuff. Cool. Before we get started, I hope it's as sunny where you are as it is where I am. It's beautiful here today
Natalie: It's stunning outside actually. It's very nice. Can't wait to go out and have a little cocktail
Matt: Absolutely. Sounds brilliant. Natalie, you work in a pretty exciting industry, but actually exciting can sometimes be turbulent. So what aspects of your role as CEO give you the most headaches?
Natalie: Honestly, right now I'm basically acting as my own CTO until we raise our next round of funds and move our operations to London. That's where I sit, and it's not my natural set as a CTO. My seat is chief of operations, creative producer, and the challenge is that every new project needs proper infrastructure behind it, CRM, accounting, production pipeline, and there's so much software out there and you can end up in what I call techno feudalism, subscription after subscription, dependent on third-party platforms for everything, and suddenly a huge chunk of your budget just keeps going to admin to keep the lights on.
And my advice, even as an indie, is invest in the right consultant early. Someone who looks at the whole company, builds you something joined up, because the goal is to get me and my team focused on what we're actually really good at, and great screen content and world-class immersive events and building this company's creative vision. That's what we wanna focus on. And we've got some exciting things in the pipeline, some immersive productions coming up, so we need to have systems that can really hold all that together.
Matt: I hear that quite often actually in people that are running organisations, that they actually almost have to become a tech head as well, because if they don't have that knowledge and understanding, it becomes very difficult to then deliver that infrastructure to everyone that's gonna work with the team. I hear it quite often, so that doesn't surprise me at all. Natalie, doing your role can mean that you're actually making loads of decisions every year, and I always ask this, I love asking this of people. So what would you say is your approach to decision-making, and are you even good at it?
Natalie: Well, I would say, first of all, I'm very empathetic and okay, I'll give you an example. I think the biggest decision I've made recently says a lot about my leadership as someone who's empathetic, and honestly about what it means to be a woman in this industry in your 40s. I went on maternity leave, and that in itself is a decision because in media you generally have to ask yourself, do you want to be a mother? And that's a question women face in a way that many men simply don't. I made that choice and I'm proud of it. But while I was on maternity leave, my business partner, my CEO, my left hand, my right-hand person who I completely trust, she's coming back. She took on one of the biggest sporting production roles in one of the biggest sporting companies in the world, and we have no massive productions running that need her at the moment, and that was an opportunity that was so big for her to pass up, so I said, "Just go for it."
And that's responsible leadership. She'll come back having worked at the top of the industry, and that will make us stronger. At the same time, we decided to stop producing in Birmingham and move everything to London and rebrand and start again. Birmingham has been incredible. The Hippodrome, the BBC's five minutes away from my office. I built an amazing community, but safety isn't where growth lives. And even on maternity leave, I didn't stop. I was studying, I did a course at the BFI in technology, a course learning VR and XR because as an indie founder, there's no off switch. You use every window you have, and that is part of leadership in running an indie production.
Matt: I love that. You said a little snippet in there that I really love. Safety is not in growth. 100%. No, I love that. And that's really only entrepreneurials get that. Speaks volumes about who you are actually.
Natalie: Yeah, I think with Transition Stage Company, it's literally a bit unique because it's just my brain. It's all the skills that I've had from my ability, being cross-disciplinary at doing lots of different things and really good at it, and just bringing it together and making a company out of it and serving my people. So yeah, it is even though I run the company, it is my entrepreneurial brain just splattered out.
Matt: Yeah. But that's a good thing, right? Because a lot of experience in there. Your point about women having to make decisions, are they going to be a career person or are they gonna be a mother? And actually you're proving, you know, you can be both.
Natalie: You can be both, but yes.
Matt: Yeah. It comes with its challenges.
Natalie: It does come with its challenges. I think in the UK, in my opinion, the career doesn't really start kicking off until your late 30s and early 40s, I think, and that's for everyone, male and female. You know, you start becoming, getting into your peak. And unfortunately, you know, as a woman, you can't have everything at the same time. You gotta pick a side. And I think actually I've made motherhood work for me in the sense that, okay then, I'm gonna take a break and work on the things that I can do, and I'm gonna scale. But before I scale and bring it to London, I'm gonna actually take my time and create systems so then I'm ready to go. So it's just about being smart and actually being honest with what you can do as a mother. And also as well, you need to ask yourself when you're in this industry, because you can just be plowing on, do you want to be a mother? And you have to factor that and make time for it. It is what it is.
Matt: Yeah, no, I understand. I get it. Yeah, I've spoken to a number of people in a similar situation in the industry, so I get it completely. You've mentioned a couple of times now about technology and so how important is technology to a CEO and the team? And what are your thoughts on the state of technology actually in the TV and film sector right now?
Natalie: Let me first tell you what Transition Stage Company actually does because context matters here. Primarily a screen-based company. We develop and produce films and emerging talent. We have theater events on, and we have aspirations to move into factual. We've got a few things in development, and that's our pathway into broadcast. So we're adjacent to broadcast right now, but deliberately moving into it. With that said, technology is everything, and I mean that personally. I'm constantly reading, watching, and learning about what's coming in next. New software, new productions, networking events where I met you. You know, you have to be ahead of it because as an indie, if you're not ahead of it, you're behind it, and you have to have your foot on the pedal and work out what can get you to where you need to go, leanly and cleanly.
Matt: Yes, a hundred percent. I do want to know that. What do you think the future of the industry looks like in the UK, and how do you think technology will have a part to play in that vision?
Natalie: Regarding technology, this is my predictions. Screen is splitting into two camps, and I think the middle ground is disappearing. And what I mean by that, on one side, there's vertical storytelling, short, addictive, social first storytelling. I think Issa Rae from Hoorae Media has just signed up with TikTok, which they're producing a micro-series on platform called Pine Drama. It's like a micro drama, and it's an 11 billion pound market growing to 20 billion by 2030, which I researched. And this producer, Issa Rae, you probably know her. She has her production company, and she is working with TikTok. So you've got that camp, and actually it's becoming quite addictive. It's taken China by storm. And the social media, Instagram is highly addictive, so you've got that camp there.
And then I think you also, on the other side, have long form film like productions. And I think if you want to survive, I think it's all about experiences around them, like production. Think like secret cinema, brand activations, because all these kids wanna go to events and do brand activations and have little things around these... How can I explain? Like, it's like a production within a production. Like for instance, remember "Barbie?" And "Oppenheimer." It became a thing, didn't it? You know, like "The Rocky Horror Show," people dress up, Barbie people. It's a whole adventure alongside the film. I think that's where film is gonna survive. And regarding broadcast TV, unless you've got like a franchise like "Game of Thrones," I think it's going to be a struggle, in my opinion. I think a lot of the same people doing the same things and aren't really pulling in younger viewers. They need a real shakeup, and underneath all that, people are just craving human connections. I think people are just exhausted by AI and AI content and relentless consumerism. So I think there needs to be someone in the room that can really galvanise audiences and get people together in broadcast, and I think that's the middle ground which is disappearing.
Matt: Are you hoping to fill that void?
Natalie: I would love to. Yes. I think that's where Transition Stage Company comes in. You know, we do a lot of brand activations and events, and we bring screen, event production, and we bring all that together. So we are doing it, and I think actually a lot of other companies are starting to do it, like A24. They've got all their quirky films, their productions, their events. They have their clothing line. So I think people are... And even not just in film and broadcast, it's also going for fashion and food. People are doing 360 events. So Transition Stage Company's always been doing that, always been doing it, but I think people are slowly getting behind it.
Matt: It sounds like you're scaling your business incredibly. So what does the sort of next chapter look like for you and for your company, do you think?
Natalie: So the next chapter really is stepping out of our comfort zone and moving everything to London. This is very scary. Moving everything to London, and we're getting our own commercial spaces. We've been interviewing CFOs because we need that, and actually meeting people to put the systems in place. And we're going to be having our own... Instead of using theaters, which we're used to, theaters and event spaces, we're gonna have our own locations in London. So we're just currently working on that at the moment while we're working on our film slates. A lot of our films are in the film festivals doing really, really well, which is good actually, because while my business partner's working for a really big company, I've just been doing PR and interviewing CFOs, looking at software, looking at what we can put into systems before we're good to go.
Because I think now as I have a child, I don't wanna take on too many projects within the company, especially in London. I wanna be able to have the right system set up before we can go, and that's how you scale really. I think if we wanna go to the next level and scale and have multiple operations, because at Transition Stage Company, we have the IP section where we have work, we work with writers, we have film, we have the events, and then we have immersive theater productions. They have massive operations. And you know, it's really fun when you have no children, you have no husband, and you can just get on with things and you can be like an indie filmmaker, indie production. But now if you wanna be serious, you have to have those systems in place.
Matt: How challenging has it been to find immersive space in London? Because that must come with its own set of issues, I can imagine.
Natalie: Actually, it's not difficult. Obviously when the pandemic started, a lot of people started working from home, so there is a lot of commercial space in London. And from my background in theater production and events, I know how to adapt that space in a way that can be used very commercially. So the problem is for us at the moment, it's not finding the space. We can find the space because there's a lot of empty spaces. For instance, I went to an event, a big fashion event. It was in Covent Garden. It's obviously separate from my industry, but I was really impressed. I thought, "Wow, how did they afford to have this event in the middle of Covent Garden?" And I went there and it was a space that was getting converted to offices, but they haven't finished it yet, and they changed this whole space that was in between construction into this amazing fashion show and production with visual screens everywhere. And there's a lot of spaces like that in London that you can negotiate a good price. Now, if I was gonna use a conference space or a theater in London, that's gonna cost me thousands and thousands, and it actually works out cheaper to probably just rent your own place in London.
Matt: Yeah, sounds like it.
Natalie: There's a lot of spaces in London. Also I would say this to filmmakers or people in production, get really smart about space. If you can soundproof it, if you can find a commercial space that's not being used, that's in between developments which you can make safe, you can actually probably film and make sets in there and the construction staff and the companies should be really happy because they'll be making money in something that's not being rented out. So there's loads. It's actually easy. The problem is for us is the right space where we can put the infrastructure in and the right size. So that's where we're at at the moment. Does that make sense?
Matt: Yeah. I mean, it sounds exciting though. I mean, it sounds like you've got your hands full, having to do everything that you do right now, especially with your business partner working away.
Natalie: Well, the thing is, it is exciting. It's not difficult because there's no project yet. It's just me interviewing people at the moment and putting systems in, and that's where you scale. Because the thing is, I can go full throttle, you know, because I'm an audience consultant. I know how to get 900 people into the room. I know how to get people to come and see my film. I'm hired by distribution companies to sometimes get people to see the films that they're trying to build audiences around. I'm excellent at that. The thing is, if you wanna scale up and you wanna work out the company instead of in the company, this is where technology can help you. And also not just the technology, get a really good consultant who can get things lined up for you. So it's the systems and flows. And also I think another thing that a lot of production companies and creatives don't really think about is systems within their company. And there's different systems. There's a CRM system, there's the production flow system, and importantly it's the cash flow systems, and this is where a lot of creative minds go wrong.
Matt: Cash is king. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I've got one more question that I want to ask you, but actually I want to ask you an extra one than I was going to ask, and I think this is... You have got some incredibly exciting stuff going on. Is there any element of whether it's the social media or whether it's part of your immersive stuff or your film production or whatever it is, is there any teasers that you want to share with us that might make people say, "Well, actually, we need to reach out to them because that sounds really exciting. We'd love to be involved," or, "We'd like to help finance it," or whatever? What little teasers would you like to put out there?
Natalie: You know what? Thank you. You just gave me inspiration, actually. So we have one of the biggest screenwriting competitions in the UK, and that's how I started out, actually, and that's what makes Transition Stage Company niche. We bring IP and we turn and make it commercial. So Enter Stage Write is a screenwriting competition. People submit, and we bring the IP and give it to broadcasters or the writers to broadcasters. Some of the writers are winning Tribeca Awards and BAFTAs, and we take the IP into film. So funny enough, the last film we've just made is called "Indignitas," and it's directed by Darcy Martin, who works with Shonda Rhimes at the moment. She works at Amazon. She's a prolific director at the BBC. But the thing is, we have online somewhere a kind of theater production where the script that we produced won, and it was just in a black box at Birmingham Hippodrome, and now it's a massive sci-fi production.
So although we haven't got anything to show at the moment, what I think I might do, actually, thank you for the inspiration, is do a side-by-side to show the power of Transition Stage Company and the power of IP and the power of finding emerging talent, showcasing it, and putting it into something that's viable, commercial, that wins awards. So I think I might do that. You've inspired me to do that, so I'm gonna work on that today. And I want people to see what Transition Stage Company does. And also, if there's any production companies out there who are looking for new IP, we have a Rolodex of really good writers. And I will keep you posted on what's coming up with what Transition Stage Company does, because I can't really talk about it, and hopefully we can do an event and I can bring your audience to it.
Matt: I think what I like about what you're doing and your company's doing is that there are a lot of production companies out there and a lot of people in production, whether it's that short form content or the longer form. They're great at making the content, but actually the commercialisation of that is just the biggest thing, and it's the biggest thing for people that are gonna finance in your sector. And so I think that the fact that you bring all of that commercialisation, with the distributors that you work with and the events that you put on, I think that's huge.
Natalie: But you know what's really interesting as well, because as you'll know in the industry, sometimes you could be in development hell for a long time. And I'm not one of these people who wait too long, and I think me tapping into those immersive production skills, building my profile, doing things while I'm in development, while I build up the screen division of Transition Stage Company, kept the lights on at my company and kept my face as a brand and as a creative leader in the limelight. So now I can raise money. Now people know who I am. So I think when you have a production company, another piece of advice I would give to you: build your company and build your brand as a 360 thing. So I was always going on podcasts, talking to lots of people about what I do. So simultaneously with Transition Stage Company, while I was in development with factual projects and independent films, I would have these immersive productions and immersive events showcasing IP. So people know I'm a really good storyteller. I can get commercial sponsorship. I can turn emerging stories into viable IP that's commercialised. So therefore, people are seeing what you can do even though you haven't got that feature film financier or that factual project co-producer. So I think as indies and producers and creative leaders, always think in a 360 way.
Matt: I tell you, that's a great tip. And I'm actually gonna ask you for one more. So my last question really is, what one insight of your finance or technology journey in the TV and film industry would you share with your peers or perhaps someone starting out in the industry?
Natalie: What I would say to people starting out in the industry, okay, there's two things. Everyone says, "Just start. Just start your company." Yes, start, but always start with systems, okay? Look at technology that can help you. Fortunately, we're in a world where we've got AI, automation, and platforms like your creative platform, that's your accounting software. Always have a look at ways that you can use this to enable your business, because once you get ahead of your business, and this is one of the mistakes I had when I first started out, I was plowing on in the business, and because I was in the business, I couldn't step out and look at the cash flow and look at the admin. So actually, simultaneously, you really need to be looking at technology and software, or at least hiring a consultant to come in and just set a system up for you, a bookkeeping system, to make sure that everything is running simultaneously, because I've heard even big companies go bust and bankrupt because of not being on top of this. Like even big companies.
Matt: Yeah.
Natalie: So okay, I'm gonna say it again. Technology-wise, systems, systems, systems. Look at systems and learn. You don't have to be an expert. I'm not an expert, but try and think of the systems that can support you as you build your company.
Matt: Fantastic. That's brilliant. Natalie, it's lovely speaking to you. It always is, and you and I have met a few times now over the last six months, and it's always a pleasure. I hope you have an exciting summer with the company and as a woman and a mother. I think your company is massively going places and I'm really excited about what you're going to do as you venture into the city. Just stay in touch and let us at Creative know how it's all going.
Natalie: We will let Creative know, and obviously we are using your platform, so yeah. Let's keep in touch and anyone can reach out to me and let me know what's going on with Creative. Any event, I will be there.
Matt: Great stuff. Natalie, thank you so much for joining me. Enjoy the sunshine, enjoy the weekend, and you and I will speak soon.
Natalie: Thank you. Bye.
Matt: Bye.
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